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RE: Coded the 45 pistol - DeltaStrikeOp - 2013-07-21

Oh? So slower firerate in exchange for less recoil. Not bad. BTW, Wilson Combat Mags have a lot of good things about them. ^_^ That extra round might just save your player's life!

So what's the max amount of spare mags for the .45?

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - dm.mossberg590a1 - 2013-07-21

6 mags just like the 9mm, 45 mags aren't that much heavier. I also lowered the damage to 55 from 60, it still is a 2 shot kill but 55 is less than double 36 so it justifies adding an extra round of magazine capacity. I admit it is a little op, but I do end up changing mags a lot. I might increase the reload time since the 1911 doesn't have a magazine well that guides the magazine in so it is harder to insert a new magazine.

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - DeltaStrikeOp - 2013-07-21

eh, in a perfect world, everyone would drop dead or become incapacitated by a gunshot. But we all know that the world is far from perfect. The .45 was originally designed to stop horses 1 shot in old cavalry fighting doctrine, which means it should be overkill for being a manstopping cartridge.

It's alright about the magazine changes. I dunno if you can do this on the 1911, but for my AR-15 "combat dumps" (try doing that with a week's worth of savings.... 2 mags max, but a whole lot of fun), I use the spine on the rear of the magazine to shove the mag in quickly. I've seen a 1911 mag, and the back is flat, so shouldn't you be able to do the same thing?

In other shooters, I find myself reloading a lot with the 1911 too. It's all part of the design of the gun, and I think it is perfectly balanced for gameplay. ^_^

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - dm.mossberg590a1 - 2013-07-22

Ok, so I slightly nerfed the 1911 by increasing the reload time to be the same as the M16 (from 1400 to 2000 ms). Also I only let the player carry 4 magazines total for the M1911 only so players won't just camp at a extra ammo spot and spam magazines. I also buffed the Sig by increasing the magazine size to 15+1 and decreasing the attack delay to 70 (from 80). The 1911 has a attack delay of 90. Since the damage from the 1911 is 55, it is not that easy to kill that fast, if you hit them in the arms you will have to put more than 2 rounds to kill the enemy (more like 3-4 rounds). I think this is pretty balanced so far, the 1911 is a devastating weapon at close range but you need to aim very carefully at long range while the Sig is better at dumping mags with great accuracy.

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - DeltaStrikeOp - 2013-07-22

Sounds good! Both pistols sound like how they're supposed to be used in real life. Put less rounds on target for the 1911, at the expense of having less rounds in your mag, as opposed to the P226, where you can do a combat dump quickly due to the reduced recoil and 15 round mag.

If you need more than 4 mags for your sidearm, you're either using the wrong weapon for the job, or in a really dire situation. Personally, I don't really see why you would need to nerf # of magazines you can carry, because if I really wanted to, I could just camp like you said for magazines.

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - dm.mossberg590a1 - 2013-07-22

You'll be surprised at how fast you can run out of ammo with only a max of four magazines.... also it's not easy to camp when the reload takes so long, you have to find cover. Like you said if you need more than 4 magazines, you're using the wrong weapon for the job, a rifle would be a better choice. I nerfed the magazine size so people will still use rifles because they hold more ammo (6 magazines worth of 31 rounds) instead of solely relying on their pistol because the M1911 is way more powerful than assault rifles which really doesn't make sense....

By the way what do you think about changing the M16 and AK47 to have higher recoil and higher damage (the M16 would only have semi auto and burst and the AK47 would only have semi auto and full auto)? The military disallowed full auto on most of the M16 and M4 models and they even disapprove of burst fire because you can place two accurate rounds that'll stop the guy during the same time you are spraying and missing most of your shots with a fully automatic gun.

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - DeltaStrikeOp - 2013-07-22

Eh, I wouldnt be too surprised with running out of ammo too quickly with only 4 magazines. My first computer shooter (delta force: blackhawk down) had the same amount of ammo, and I marveled at the balance (snipers were lethal with those things!). I agree with everything you say for the pistols.

In regards to damage compared to rifles, you might be interested in the TKOF (taylor knock out factor). Most games use the TKOF chart for their weapon damage (and then game developers nerf things for "game balance", lol), and I found it pretty fascinating. This is one of the reasons why SWAT/HRT sometimes uses pistol caliber SMGs, for their raw takedown power. However, with the increasing usage of body armor, rifles are more common for their AP capability (though you could always have AP rounds in a SMG). ACR doesn't correctly have the 9mm from the MP5 or Pistol being that powerful.
Btw, take a look at the .38 Special. =)

In regards to your ideas on changing the damage and recoil, I think I'm already satisfied with the current recoil in "hardcore" mode. I remember Ruler501 sent me a beta test of the original "simulation recoil", and that was some pretty hard stuff. I feel like Ruler toned it down for "hardcore" mode now, which made things more manageable.

I do NOT suggest changing the fire groups. The 3-round burst trigger group was a complete flop. The whole thing about how soldiers would waste less ammunition clearly wasn't thought out by an infantryman that's trying to suppress the enemy. It is literally like the whole M1 Garand's plink when dry thing. Also, this game isn't a mil-sim shooter, so I dont think the firegroups matter. In reality, I've heard nothing but bad things about the burst trigger groups, which is why the Mk. 12 SPR uses the old M16A1's trigger group. The whole burst trigger group thing was conceived because of the whole "double tap" doctrine (once to drop them, the second to stop him and make him cry for his mama), but the basic idea to the complete overhaul of "hardcore" mode was to encourage players to fire in semiauto and controlled bursts, not like CoD's spray and pray.

Thanks for reading, as always. ^_^ And sorry for the delay! Freaking computer's dying on me.

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - dm.mossberg590a1 - 2013-07-23

Well, the Taylor KO factor looks interesting, but again "knockdown power" has been proven not to be effective and we are talking about knockdown power of shotguns and 45 bullets and stuff. Because of conservation of momentum if a bullet knocks somebody down the person firing the gun will get knocked down also. The only deciding factor in stopping power is the wound channel of a round because the only thing that will stop someone is when they lose enough blood so the brain shuts down. A pistol round creates a small hole which gets slightly plugged when the tissue reexpands. Compare that to a rifle round which fragments and rips through tissue which causes devastating wounds.

Also note that 223 will go through body armor, but not drywall Smile . This is partly the reason why SWAT teams switched to the 223: it goes through less walls than the 9mm. They still use MP5s when they want suppressed weapons though.

Compare that with the near constant abysmal reports of police officers shooting people over and over again with 38 special FMJ and 9mm FMJ and the people still don't stop. There is absolutely no way that a 38 special can outperform the 223. No wonder why the majority of games are so weird when it comes to stopping power Smile . Yeah, lets throw away our assault rifles and snipe with the almighty 38 special Big Grin .

If your using a rifle for suppression, you've already lost the war, period. There is a reason why we have SAWs, there is a reason why we have rifles. Rifles are for semi automatic marksmanship, SAWs are for suppression. It is hard to kill an enemy from long distance with the SAW, it is hard to suppress with a rifle. Burst is kind of a middle ground between full auto and semi automatic, mostly suited for close range applications. I don't see why any marksman would need to fire more than three rounds in bursts, after that you're just spraying and praying.

I guess I agree that ACR is not a milsim game, I'm just a little annoyed that 9mm FMJ would have more stopping power than MK262 lol.

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - DeltaStrikeOp - 2013-07-23

True, TKOF doesnt take into account terminal ballistics, fragmentation, hydrostatic shock, and all that good stuff like the wound channel leading to bleeding out. That's one reason why the 7.62x39mm AK round was really ineffective against soft targets since it didnt fragment and relied upon yaw upon entering tissue, even though the TKOF of the 7.62x39mm is higher than the 5.56 NATO

The article about .223s not penetrating much compared to pistol calibers is true and makes sense. Pistol calibers aren't fragmenting, and they have higher amounts of momentum compared to the "overpowered" .223 (115 grain round 9mm vs 55 grain round 5.56), so they will carry more of their energy through barriers if they penetrate. I remember a SWAT contact telling me once that cars are effective cover (and concealment). He claimed that the sheet steel causes the rounds to fragment (if rifle/fragmenting round), or sometimes stop at the door itself (pistol rounds usually). In the worst case sceneario, the car would at least absorb most of the energy to the point where you're gonna be hurt, but not dead.

I understand what you mean by the rifle not meant for suppression, but keep in mind that it is an assault rifle, not a battle rifle. It fires intermediate rounds that have lower recoil compared to battle rifles, and can be used in rocknroll mode in a pinch. Compare that to the M14, which tried to be everything, and sucked at full auto. The burst function is useful for CQB operations, but it is severely limiting. An experienced operator almost never uses burst, and instead uses controlled bursts on the automatic setting.
Sometimes the longer barreled SAW is used for long range applications, such as laying down a wall of lead for our infantrymen with assault rifles to take the point, since the 14.5 inch barreled M4 has an effective range of about 200 meters. Then again, my relative shot 500m targets with an M16A2 w/o any fancy optics for qualifications. What a difference a few inches of barrel makes (and also for fragmentation).

I understand your frustration about 9mm's (and heck, the .38 Special. What a joke) being more powerful than rifle rounds like the .223 and specialized rounds like the Mk. 262, but again, the chart doesnt take into account terminal ballistics, and basically analyzes KO factor by physics.

Oh btw, I find it a bit funny how the article was from Olympic Arms. Nothing like endorsing a certain caliber of firearms to increase sales. ^_^

RE: Coded the 45 pistol - dm.mossberg590a1 - 2013-07-24

XdEpicZombie... what is the status on the new pistol model? We already have the pistol working despite a few bugs like pressing 3 doesn't switch to grenades...

Ruler501.... how do you file a bug report when the program crashes really fast for no apparent reason? Does the program have a log somewhere?