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Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
2013-04-10, 10:05 PM, (This post was last modified: 2013-04-28, 04:41 PM by DeltaStrikeOp.)
#1
Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Hi guys. So as a US Army Future soldier, shooting hobbyist, and tactical enthusiast, I think ACR should include a Realistic game setting. This is taken from one of my favorite games, "Project Reality".

Currently, this game is played a lot like it's CoD or like CounterStrike (I never played counterstrike before, but ive seen gameplay). For example, the M16 or AK-47 and "run n gun". I find this game to be really fun for that reason. However, I also think that it is a bit boring after a while. A lot of multiplayer games are dedicated Sniping games. Yes, it is more challenging, but it also takes out the, shall I say, "tactical realism" of the game. Granted, this game was always meant to be played in a run n gun fashion, but hey, this mod is an improvement of the original.

Anyways, back to what I'm thinking. I think that we should have a mode that closely resembles "Sniping" for the game. Yes, we do have a sniping category of deathmatch games, but I find it really boring sitting around in TwinTowers waiting for somebody to poke their head out and get shot. When ACR had regular game nights, I remember running around "no-scoping" because I had a weird hardware bug. So here's my proposal:

We should create a game category called "tactical realism" (i wanted to use the word "real virtuality", until i remembered that I got that word from Arma). In this mode, the M16 and AK-47 weapons will have recoil that somewhat resembles their real world counterparts. Think of it kinda as the M21, but tweak the M16 to have less damage, while the AK has higher damage, but way higher recoil. Automatic fire will still be in the game, but there will be a severe recoil consequence.

Also, I think that the game could use a sort of "wounding" system. When your health goes below 40 or some other number, you will be stuck at walking speed and even diagonal movement will not make you faster.

Another thing that would be in the gameplay setting would the the absolute removal of the HUD. The only thing you will have is a compass somewhere on the screen. This would make gameplay much more difficult in that we do not know how many rounds I have left in my magazine before a magazine change. The crosshairs will also be removed, forcing the player to look down the sights of his/her firearm to see where the firearm might hit. We can either still have the "100% accuracy" philosophy in ADS mode, or it will have normal, untweaked accuracy that is from vanilla gameplay mode where stance affects accuracy.

Finally, I think we should still leave in the M21 DMR and the other SRs. However, there should be a penalty of weight in order to not make them be in the front lines often unless they need to be. The shotgun shouldn't be removed, and I can't think of anything to tweak besides maybe the spread. Most 12 gauge shotguns have spread of about a palm's size at 10 feet. I dunno, I may be off, but if you'd like, maybe tweak it.




Thank you for looking at this suggestion. I do not mind it being shot down, but what are your thoughts? I realize this game wasn't meant for being realistic, but this is one suggestion I have. I'd be grateful if you'd leave some comments below. =)

So short summary of this big, long post:

Inclusion of "tactical realism" (or get a better name)game mode

- Removal of HUD interface in game. (I forgot to add to keep magazine count and firemode)
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...wAw&dur=24
see for reference. Less is more!

- Higher recoil of M-16 and AK-47 to mimic real world counterparts.

- New wounding system that controls movement and visibility based on health.

DSO
Windows 8 fanboy =D
"Not dead, can't quit"
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2013-04-11, 06:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 2013-04-11, 06:15 AM by Fubizz.)
#2
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
I think it's a really good idea and I would like to play this game mode! Smile
But I think maybe Victor can make an extra menu for "realistic" mode where you can enable those features, then you could play with all features or e.g. just add higher recoil for the Assault Rifles. Maybe you could remove the whole HUD to make it realism pure ? So that you can just see your weapon. Smile
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2013-04-11, 04:12 PM,
#3
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Is the recoil in real life higher than what is in ACR right now? Did I make the recoil too small?

I've said this before: removing the HUD is something that hackers can hack (easily). I oppose this feature.

If a wounding system is added, the damage would have to be a lot lower or else it will be too easy to kill. Everyone would be a one-shot kill with any weapon.

Best regards,
Victor
//victorz.ca
Code:
Your antithesis compares favorably with any high magnitude of pwnage. (-you > |p|, you < -|p|)
My antithesis compares favorably with _that of_ any high magnitude of pwnage. (|-me| > |-p|, |me| > |p|)
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2013-04-11, 07:31 PM,
#4
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Yes, IRL, recoil of the M-16 and AK-47 is way higher than right now. Currently, we can run n gun with the AR's effectively laying down a huge wall of lead. In real life, a semiautomatic shot from a 5.56 NATO throws off your aim much more than depicted in game. The AK's 7.62x39mm Russian literally just throws you off target every shot. Even insurgents know to only fire the AK in single fire mode. Same goes for the AK-74. In fact, military doctrine is to fire in single fire mode to conserve ammunition and ensure higher hit probability. Bursting and Full Auto is strictly reserved for emplaced or heavy weapons unless you are conducting MOUT type operations (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) where a wall of lead can do much harm. Then again, this game is CQB-type fighting, but I'd like for there to be a mode that shows the consequence of going cyclic (full auto) on a firearm. BTW, i realized that the recoil of the AR in vanilla AC is the closest thing for what I'm trying to say. The recoil is very high and it is pretty hard to keep a target in your crosshairs.

I understand what you mean when you say hackers can exploit the HUD feature. But even then, the HUD in game is pretty much useless as all it shows that is of importance is the number of rounds in your magazine, magazines left, and Compass/Map. The thing I really wanted to eliminate was the crosshairs and make it behave a lot like the sniper rifle in AC.

About the Damage system. I see what you're saying. However, if the "higher recoil" system is implemented, it will be harder to gun down a enemy. Also, if you tweak the ADS so that there will be some deviation, that will mimic real world weapon accuracy and make the game a bit harder for enjoyment. Also, IRL, it only takes 2-3 rounds to disable a fighting man. Tactical doctrine is to double-tap (2 rounds) every target to be sure that they're dead. Could you somehow implement that?


Thank you for hearing me out Victor. I see your standpoint, and I'm trying to convince you to have this feature. =) I will completely understand if you just tell us that this idea will not be considered in game.

Also, if this seems to be too complicated, what do you think of adding a M21 only mode? I really like the M21 for the game because it has characteristics that are similar for the game. Maybe call it "Designated Marksman" game-mode.

DSO
Windows 8 fanboy =D
"Not dead, can't quit"
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2013-04-11, 07:41 PM, (This post was last modified: 2013-04-11, 07:42 PM by Victor.)
#5
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Well, then maybe the recoil should be increased so that it is between the current ACR values and AC values, to make it more realistic. I might have reduced the recoil way too much from AC.

The compass can be useful, and that might be the only reason to hack the HUD.

Best regards,
Victor
//victorz.ca
Code:
Your antithesis compares favorably with any high magnitude of pwnage. (-you > |p|, you < -|p|)
My antithesis compares favorably with _that of_ any high magnitude of pwnage. (|-me| > |-p|, |me| > |p|)
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2013-04-11, 09:19 PM, (This post was last modified: 2013-04-16, 06:35 PM by DeltaStrikeOp.)
#6
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Now we're moving to mutual ground. =)

I agree with your thoughts regarding recoil. However, some people may not like the "tactical realism" change. Could the recoil change be implemented only in that specific game mode?

Also, I did talk about what to probably include in the reduced HUD. Here's what I'm proposing to keep in this game mode:

- Magazine count/fire mode

- Compass

This will be ALL that will be kept. It will unclutter the HUD too. See below for ingame picture from "Project Reality"
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http...wAw&dur=24

Note how there is no crosshair on screen. You rely on aiming down your weapon. This is more realistic b/c IRL when you're in the "Rapid Aim Fire"/Point-Shooting (the official SF lingo for having your rifle pointed at all times), you do not know where you're gonna hit. The penalty for not being in ADS mode is that your shots might go all over your screen. Only in ADS mode will you have a visual on where you will hit. Apply some deviation in order to be realistic about weapon sway (unless you can code that?). I still like the 100% accuracy you have in ADS mode, but let's be realistic, when moving, your accuracy will drastically decrease, which is why I think there should be deviation even in ADS mode.

DSO
Windows 8 fanboy =D
"Not dead, can't quit"
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2013-04-12, 03:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 2013-04-12, 03:20 AM by asmanel.)
#7
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
About weapons, their settings are, when possible, in the C++ source code, like in Cube.

Why not make more external the weapon, like in Eisenstern ?
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2013-04-12, 06:29 AM,
#8
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Victor, maybe you could let the game check all files to be the same as the original to reset all changes hackers did... I mean, when you click on "Multiplayer" -> "Search for servers (ONLINE not LAN)" it should check if all files are OK and if not it should replace them with the originals, and then let it check every 5 minutes maybe and probably kick hackers ? I think it wouldn't be that hard if you add the auto updater to the ACR folder and do the download and replace progress with it ?
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2013-04-12, 09:27 AM,
#9
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
I agree with Fubizz's suggestion. There should be an implemented file integrity checker in ACR. The models however, should be untouched though, because I have Padge1's SCAR as the AK, and I'm hoping to replace the M16 and Intervention models as Padge1 uploads his work.

DSO
Windows 8 fanboy =D
"Not dead, can't quit"
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2013-04-12, 10:16 AM,
#10
RE: Realism Setting (READ BEFORE YOU CRITICIZE)
Fubizz, why do you read this here and now ?
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