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M1014 severely underpowered?
2013-07-12, 08:47 PM,
#1
M1014 severely underpowered?
Hi all,

Recently while playing a zombies match with @DamienTheMapMaker, we've noticed that the shotgun is severely underpowered to our tastes. For me, I'm really used to shotgunning Halo-style, which was basically a concentrated cone of lead which usually took around 2-3 shots medium range to kill a fully shielded spartan.
[Image: Image8.jpg]

My input from shotgunning in ACR is that the spread is way too high and that the damage doesnt really make up for the high spread. In a zombie match, it takes around 4+ shots in my experience to shoot down 1 zombie. I couldn't get any SPLAT!s because of their knifing distance.

If the M1014 had a much tighter cone of spread, and higher damage, I would see more people use the shotgun. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, buckshot usually is in a pretty tight group. From this source, you have around 10 inch hole at a 10 yard distance.
[Image: 42-5.jpg]
vs
[Image: HKoJV.jpg]
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot42.htm

In summary, I really think the Devs should consider both tightening up the shotgun's spread and damage of the pellets. I really dont think I should only take down 2 zombies with 8 rounds, when in most games involving zombies, the shotgun is the most coveted firearm. What are your inputs regarding the current M1014 performance in-game?

Again, thank you all for reading my gun rants. xD

DSO
Windows 8 fanboy =D
"Not dead, can't quit"
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2013-07-12, 10:42 PM,
#2
Thumbs Up  Yes, You're Right
Yeah, the shotgun is way too underpowered. And with the spread, i feel like i have to get closer to the enemy than usual to get a good shot

6 Years of Assault Cube Mapping.
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2013-07-12, 10:59 PM, (This post was last modified: 2013-07-12, 11:14 PM by dm.mossberg590a1.)
#3
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
And I've been saying this ever since I started this account.... you could stand at medium-long range and laugh at the opponent as he sprays a 8 rounds of buckshot into you and slowly starts to reload. It's that bad!! The shotgun just won't work. This is silly given that in real life the shotgun's spread is very tight out to 25 yards, which is the maximum combat range of a pistol. With a slug it is an easy 50-100 yards. I think the shotgun was made in the old "Assaultcube mod" times where it was ok to shoot somebody a gazillion times and still be trucking on, but now one burst from a AK47 can kill someone. Whats the use of even putting a shotgun if it doesn't have any stopping power???

The shotgun with buckshot should have at least half of the spread and each pellet should be at least 1/2 the damage of the MP5. A round of buckshot is .33 caliber, which is similar to 9mm and while a 9mm hollow point expands, so does a lead pellet (it flattens). 1/2 * 9 = 4.5 times more effective than the MP5 per shot at medium distance so one blast of buckshot would be equivalent to a 4-5 round burst of the MP5. Also the stopping power modifier should apply to each pellet so it becomes more powerful.

/endgunrant (I use this /endgunrant so often I should put it in my signature Big Grin)

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[Image: cooltext1206791925_zps58ab60b5.gif]

"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off." - Bjarne Stroustrup
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2013-07-12, 11:50 PM, (This post was last modified: 2013-07-12, 11:51 PM by DeltaStrikeOp.)
#4
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
Yeah, I never really even tried with the shotgun in ACR because I didn't even have a chance against the bots with the shotgun. The bots have insane reflexes (aim-bot, heh), so you do not stand a chance if you round a corner and they're waiting with a shotgun. In multiplayer matches, nobody touches the M1014. You're screwed for any distance. In room clearing situations, the only good time it seems for the M1014, you're virtually reloading all the time. That gives the opposing side plenty of time to give you a wall of lead from an automatic.

If the M1014 has more damage and tighter groups, people should be using it a lot more. It will be fun though testing out the M1014 in maps like Douze with its corners and long ranges.

I think that if the M1014 still wont get that many users with the changes, maybe the shotgun should instead become a secondary. The Serbu Super-Shorty is basically the Remington 870 pump action shotgun, but severely cut down for sidearm usage and door-breaching. It could be really powerful so that people will sacrifice their Pistol or RPG, but would also have really bad accuracy. It has a 2 round round capacity, so it wont become too overpowered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbu_Super-Shorty
[Image: ser_shorty_big.jpg]

Kinda wonder how they balanced shotguns in CoD and BF now.

DSO
Windows 8 fanboy =D
"Not dead, can't quit"
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2013-07-13, 12:14 AM, (This post was last modified: 2013-07-13, 12:30 AM by dm.mossberg590a1.)
#5
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
Meh short shotguns are mostly gimmicks they have so much recoil they can break your hand. A balanced shotgun would be a pump action shotgun like the Remington 870P or Mossberg 590a1 with extremely high recoil but devastating power through range. The recoil would physically push you back like the Barrett and you will be way off target when aiming. You would have to aim with the shotgun and hip fire would be like hip firing a Barrett (you won't hit anything). That will solve the bot problem, they never use iron sights. The problem is that the rate of fire on the M1014 is so high and the recoil is so low that the devs try to balance it by making it weak.

I would rather have a very powerful high recoil shotgun than a low recoil weak shotgun. You won't be reloading so much with the slow rate of the pump and the one shot kill ability. Also with the bead sight you can aim extremely quickly compared to ghost ring or rifle sights. If the devs reduce the spread and increase the power for the M1014, then the M1014s will be too powerful (you could snipe people by hip-firing with the red dot aiming thing) and the bots with the shotgun would be nearly invincible.

Either way, the current shotgun is unacceptable... something has to change.

Remington 870
[Image: 870p003.jpg]

Mossberg 590a1
[Image: 4683954509_89f13dda14.jpg]

[Image: 4636172761_6a51425d04_z.jpg]

[Image: name_zps459dc421.gif]
[Image: cooltext1206791925_zps58ab60b5.gif]

"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off." - Bjarne Stroustrup
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2013-07-13, 09:25 AM, (This post was last modified: 2013-07-13, 09:26 AM by Victor.)
#6
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
Well, maybe I should use something similar to AC's spread algorithm. ACR's evenly distributes the shots, but AC's makes more shots closer to the center.

Also, the other weapons are sort of overpowered, so that is another problem.

Best regards,
Victor
//victorz.ca
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2013-07-13, 08:27 PM,
#7
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
Try playing on my server(71.*) for a while. I changed a couple things with the shotgun(more damage per hit and less spread mainly) and I think it is more balanced, but am not sure if it is too OP now.
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2013-07-14, 12:23 AM,
#8
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
Me and DeltaStrikeOp did some range testing and I think your shotgun mod is pretty balanced and not too OP and has acceptable range, ruler501. It would be good if this modification goes into the official 2.5.9 release.

[Image: name_zps459dc421.gif]
[Image: cooltext1206791925_zps58ab60b5.gif]

"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off." - Bjarne Stroustrup
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2013-07-14, 03:24 AM,
#9
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
I'll leave it up for a week or two so people can say how they feel, but if noone has any complaints it will probably be in the next release.
What do you thinking of a slower rate of fire and more recoil though?
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2013-07-14, 09:07 AM,
#10
RE: M1014 severely underpowered?
I have to say it is too op. Now you can kill people in mid range much better with shotgun than with any other weapon. Why not add a delay between shots? It is pretty unrealistic if you shoot 8 rounds of ammo in less than 1 sec and keep aiming perfectly. Doing so would also solve the damage problem: If you make the shotgun one-hit-killing in a short range (~5m?) but add a delay you would prevent noobs from running around and spamming everyone in their fov while still keeping the shotgun a useful weapon.

The C Programming Language: combines the flexibility of assembly language with the power of assembly language.
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